Ambro @ freedigitalphotos.net Mpho Makhubedu from South Africa incited another interesting conversation. A conversation which awakened in me two urges: To jump in and clear all misconceptions, and to run away and let things take their course.
I think I have done the latter; I have realized that prejudice is indeed a burden that confuses the past, threatens the future and renders the present inaccessible. (The winged words of Maya Angelou)
Warning: This is a l-o-n-g, fiery debate between white and black South Africans and Americans, only to be read by people who really want to understand the issue called ‘white supremacy’.
I think I have done the latter; I have realized that prejudice is indeed a burden that confuses the past, threatens the future and renders the present inaccessible. (The winged words of Maya Angelou)
Warning: This is a l-o-n-g, fiery debate between white and black South Africans and Americans, only to be read by people who really want to understand the issue called ‘white supremacy’.
Mpho Makhubedu: Most White people don't comprehend White Supremacy plain and simple. Nelson Mandela's biographical Movie is braking box office records dew to his death and White own companies that produced the movie are laughing all the way to the bank, its amazing that the guy who has fought so much against White Domination only to have his death turned in to a marketing tool for the same people he went to war with...white supremacy is the old money that was build of the backs of blacks, white supremacy is the Generally higher standard of living for white people, White supremacy is blacks can't compete nor open or buy major companies in Europe but Europeans do as they please in Africa, White supremacy is that old White Jesus pic hanging at my grand mother's house. White is the System regardless if you in Nigeria, South Africa, America or Europe. White supremacy is me being a South African having to learn English a European language in order to survive in this World...ok a White person might say why don't you open film company and produce your own Movies cool but how I compete with a company that's is older than my people's freedom. It took paramount and other film companies 80 years to get where they are today that's in a White designed System now imagine how long it take for a black company to get to that level in this System.
John : All black planet is my utopia
Nikohl : Wow, you spoke some truth with this post. No ignorance, racism, just truth. I love posts like this.
Moet : So true
Mpho Makhubedu: In 1860 99% of all blacks worked for Whites, today 98% of all black people work for Whites. We blacks are enjoying a social illusion its time to open our eyes and get rid of this illusion. I have tagged about 6 White people have yet to hear their response.
Moet : And you won't hear their response.
Jannie : South Africa is now in the hands of blacks. Did you grab the opportunity - NO !.
Moet : Lol I like when they get offensive like we did something to their asses smdh.
Mpho Makhubedu: I own my own business Jennie south Africa is the hands of black politically not economically...did you comprehend that – NO! There is no way my business can compete with a major white owned conglomerate like wall Mart or pic n pay..they simply come to my community market the selves with the Millions they got and get me out of business. Blacks simply don't have the resources to compete. And speaking of blacks in power political Wise Obama is the president of the U.S. but black still don't own Nothing see you have to learn to separate economics and politics totally different Mechanisms.
Nikohl : Africa in a whole is not in the hands of blacks. There are black officials appointed but whites run Africa. I can't believe you would make such a comment. You all act as if we have so many opportunities that we choose not to utilize but the case is that even when we do we still have to struggle to be successful or even come close to it because others ate trying to ensure black business doesn't thrive. Lets never forget how Black Wall street was burned down by whites.
Mpho Makhubedu: Nikohl most people don't even know about black Wall street again we don't have the resources to tell our stories so our history forever be hidden. The Media forever port us as worthless scums and well fair Queens
Imafighter : Fucking white devils always get offended and quiet when you hit them with the facts. But black people who sell out to white supremacy are the problem, I think integration was the worse thing for black people and Mandela and MLK. This is why there is no such thing as "not all white people are bad" No, all those muthafuckas are bad, they smile in your face and act like they care, but let something affect their white privilege. Best believe they get real in a heartbeat. White devils work like this, they try to get on your good side so when you open up to them they rob you for your resources and use you, its in their fuckin DNA. I don't trust them at all! That's how slavery happened, they fooled us with their kindness and destroyed our ancestors, fuck outta here.
Camille : To be honest I'm not sure if the above comments are in the spirit of this page, and not everyone sits in front of their computer commenting on facebook statuses 24hours a day, calm yourselves. Martie: may I ask, did you add these nut jobs to your page, or can people just add each other as they like?
Imafighter : Camille I see you are a typical white devil who is upset at the truth, my boy Mpho Makhubedu tagged me In this and don't tell me to calm myself down bitch, I say wtf I want, this ain't slavery days honey! Watch it.
Martie Coetser Pozyn: Hi Camille, we are now on Mpho's personal page and not in the group.
Camille : Ah! Right, I wondered how I got here! Mpho I forgot you and I are facebook friends, before this we have always posted on good old Martie's public page. Your post has much value, but your friends are a bit angry, let me think about a reply.
Mpho Makhubedu: Camille everyone is entitled to his or her opinion can say what he wants that his believe and his been through a lot at the hands of the White system So instead of putting a valid counter augment you get to fighting and ask why Martie added this people you just proved my point you just used to Whites being in power you just assumed Martie was in charge.
Nikohl: Hi Camille I think its rude to call people nut jobs. Not once did I respect you or anyone else.
Mpho Makhubedu: Martie your opinion? its always better to to hear from both side when you shy away you proving how right we are I guess deep down every white person is aware of their privileges.
Camille : Sorry guys, facebook is a bit higher-grade for me, especially on my phone, and I’m not that good at the racism thing either. Enjoy it!
Nikohl : Your sarcasm shows your lack of knowledge on this issue or ability to say anything of value regarding this conversation. While you attempt to act as if you are above us our comments show we are more intellectual when it comes to such matters. Enjoy your day
Martie Coetser Pozyn: Mpho , yes, you have stated facts. Living and evolving in the northern hemisphere, forced to survive in the most horrible weather conditions, had also forced the white brain to think and plan far ahead, and typical HUMAN behaviour, they have exploited everything on earth, including humans in Africa, in their quest to survive. Now let's face and accept facts and come forward with plans .... and all plans are about survival. What are we going to do in order to survive, and not only until we die, but for humans until the end of this planet? Most countries have already put plans into action in order to resolve environmental and social problems. Now Africa, having a problem with white supremacy, can certainly come forward with a feasible plan. For example, you can kill every white person in your sight, or you can be more civilized and demand an exodus of whites to the north, and then you have all the power to make Africa your perfect world, or you can even be more civilized and make Africa the perfect continent in co-operation with all races in the world. Here is a link to some great, positive ideas by Tom Mukasa –
Martie Coetser Pozyn: Read Tom Mukasa’s articles in Hubpages - http://tommukasa.hubpages.com
Mpho Makhubedu: No one is thinking of killing or chasing anybody out of Africa all we want is acknowledgment that yes it does exist see once you acknowledge some and it wrong you can move forward and try to change it Martie I mean even a drug use first has to admit he or she has a problem in order to be clean
Jannie : Insult your black politicians if you are 'have-not's. Not us whites. We don't steal the money !
Nikohl : Ha whites don't steal? America was built on stealing. Corporations, land you name it you all have taken it by force. Lets be real and stop hiding from the truth. Just because you think a lie doesn't make it true or any more believable
Imafighter : Jannie you a dumb ass bitch. But I forgot white people always run from the truth smh. Talk about black politicians, the white ones have been in power longer than the black ones so FOH with that bullshit!
Martie Coetser Pozyn: Mpho , by now you know I focus on the present and future. We cannot change the past, we cannot even afford to waste time by exchanging accusations and apologies. The future lies ahead of us and the future depends on our actions in the present. What are your thoughts about BEE? This is after all one plan to enable black empowerment. Do you feel it is not effective? I know a few successful black business men and women, of course not on the same level as Cyril Ramaphosa and the Mandelas, but surviving. Keep in mind that even the whites are working for white bosses. Bosses were not born bosses, they have used their brains, hands and feet climbing the ladder of success. Climbing this ladder is NOT easy, making a business work, providing job opportunities, takes enormous courage, brain power and hard work, and fortunately the dishonest sooner or later gets caught and punished. Why using precious energy to hate and condemn those who have managed to achieve success. Let's rather use our energy to climb the ladder....
Mpho Makhubedu: every time a black person Questions he or she is racist...i mean every time they show poverty in the Media its always a black face mean while Africa is the richest continent now you tell me who owns those resources definitely not us, my people have become the face of poverty and I personally won't stand for it even if I have to loose my life I . continue to try to change the system and make Whites see that there is a problem if you cant accept it you part of the problem like Nas said we patient for now. Martie the ladder for me has more obstacles than yours that’s my whole argument White supremacy exists today. An uneducated black person and an uneducated White person don’t have the same standard of living. An uneducated black person and an uneducated White person don't have the same standard of living until that is a way of life only then black and White be truly equal
Ruth : In the future we not be white or black but a mixed race of people. All gates shall be open and every single mouth fed. This is my dream
Nikohl : Just leave it alone, they never understand. You see how she says leave the past in the past but this is our present. Look at the news, the judicial system, life in general. We suffer while you all continue to thrive and keep us from establishing our communities. We go to school in hopes of better opportunities but graduate and can't find jobs. We can't get loans and when we do the interest is much higher. We have to work twice as hard to accomplish anything but we are still treated as second class. Acknowledge this, dare to make a change to treat us equally and allow us the same opportunities and then the past no longer be relevant.
Amelia : Through history blacks have been forced to concede. now you hope for one mixed race... brilliant... my people were and still are being systematically raped by whites... now white males are raping young black children. screw a mixed race. my children aren't blending and neither am I. enough mixing inferior genetics with ours. now we have leukemia, cancer, autism and all these other defects, which only began after being raped and other forced racial blending techniques... blacks and Irish, raped and forced to breed. they are the only ones who ever had it as bad as we did... and still do.. no more mixing, let everyone else’s genes fend for themselves. She said (Martie) that the reason this was done was to secure a future for whites... the behavior utilized to do so was and is NOT basic human nature, it's basic white nature... it should be addressed and i mean no offense... violence and the like use to be last resort measures of all indigenous people.. a tactic used to save family and community, which is why in the beginning, blacks selling blacks into slavery wasn't so bad of an idea, because it was better than killing. or so they thought, hindsight being 20/20 vision i know they know those blacks would have been better off dead than to become zombies with no knowledge of their past, empty vessels with no way of finding true serenity and happiness.
Martie Coetser Pozyn: Mpho, I cannot agree with you about uneducated and poor whites not living the same standard of living. Do you really want me to prove you wrong with some articles on the Internet? It's impotent to have a broad perspective on an issue in order to make and work a plan. Narrow perspective is like a small box, we cannot move forward inside a small box... I am able to prove to you that our percentage uneducated and poor is the same as yours. But somehow, maybe, they have more caring relatives and friends, and therefore we don't see most of them in public. We only see those who have been rejected by their relatives and friends. What do you say? Must I find you some articles?
Gift : @everyone I say this once-it's not a collective effort to steal or do wrong, it's an individual effort, we can't give crime or sin a colour or race, it is sad to see smart people reacting emotionally and being unable to understand some deeds that took place in the past, let's all take a minute and see each other as human and not label one other by calling each other by colour-to see colour is racist ad too call people by names is disrespectful and distasteful, let’s first find the purpose of our discussion and take it from there, because from from where I am sitting I would say this is a platform to state the obvious and shift blame while making other people feel bad about what they have cannot change. Lastly I would say let's all agree that mistakes have been made in the past and we all have to bring a change. "Be the difference you want to see in the world"
Nikohl : As I stated before, we can never acknowledge the wrong done then and still so why bother. Also its hard to eliminate colour lines when that's all we've been known by.
Amelia : NOW white people are feeling the burden, as those polluted by absolute power are now not caring about any who need the help of the government, as blacks and whites of low income, in increasing numbers are seriously draining to the governmental pockets... I find it hilarious that while blacks suffered the same indecencies (and more, still do to this date quiet as its kept), it was not important.. blacks had to bootstrap pull themselves up for basic survival. now that whites are feeling a sliver of our pangs at the hands of the government, it is seen that there is a true problem with the system. RIGHT NOW, those unable to sustain themselves independently are targets, without ANY REGARD TO RACE... this does not mean that there no need for apologies to be given, it means the opposite.. we blacks have been town criers for centuries about the system. we were right and if the at risk whites had acknowledged this sooner, we would have had a better foot hold to exact change. we need to acknowledge the past ills, i lost family to the recent years of W/S racism... denise mcnair, one of the 4 girls bombed in the church while ping for peace... reparations are due, absolutely for the recent atrocities.. but in the mean time, the poor people need to figure how to become valuable and lucrative with limited finances.
Gift : It's a choice someone made for you in the past, I chose to make my own choice and not be judgemental about people I don't understand, I made a decision to pick mesel up and work hard for what I want to achieve, change is not an event but a process which cannot be measured how long it might take
Amelia : Saying the wrong can not be acknowledged is a slap in the face to those of us who would have been able to interact with family members, had they not been killed by the cruelty of white hands, trying to secure a future for themselves. Japanese Americans got apologies and reparations for their brief internment. Indigenous Native Americans, the Jews (Ashkenazi), but BLACKS should just get over it because acknowledgement of wrongdoings perpetrated on us are not worthy of mention?? So my cousin, which I should have been able to enjoy, her life was not worthy of any acknowledgement? Why because she was ping for peace while others were ping for the death of her and her peers?? Get some sense... If it were a white person, justice needed to be done...
Neil : The difficulty is that we struggle to understand and challenge an unjust system of white supremacy in global capitalism and then fall into the trap of blaming each other at a parochial and individual level. Of course blacks have every right to be damn angry. But we all get defensive when we feel we are being personally attacked or blamed for things which we feel we have little or no control over. Socialism prefers class war rather than race war. White people (I am mixed) have to recognize that white supremacy not only exists, but affords white people a head start even when starting from the same economic basis as their black neighbour. However all people, black, white, whatever, should bear in mind that judging and condemning a whole group of people on the basis of the colour of their skin is the lazy way of the bigot and the racist. It hinders the mammoth task of creating true and lasting equality. Fight the mega rich corporations who run the show, not each other.
Martie Coetser Pozyn: Nicohl , we are all in the same boat. Unemployment, living from the hand to the mouth, graduating but finding no job, battling to pay for water, electricity, the bare necessities, paying enormous municipal taxes based on the value of our house, and then seeing our garbage uncollected because the municipality is insolvent and not able to repair their broken vehicles, and many more unfortunate stuff like not getting loans because our income minus basic expenses is not enough to cover payback of a loan, is very-very-very much also our lot. I can spend hours proving this to you....
Ruth: Galatians 3:28 - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Amelia : We are not. While white in SA can get land together (that never belonged to them I might add) to create settlements in post apartheid SA so they can be sufficient is not what blacks could do in SA during apartheid. Black settlement showing any prosperity would be either extorted or decimated... its not the same playing field Martie. If you took an honest assessment of SA before and after, you would feel like crap, but the truth and acknowledging it is the beginning of healing
Mpho Makhubedu: Martie how can we have broad prospective when we constantly get its in the past deal with when the system is messed up today just because we South Africans you and I doesn't mean some of our issues ant global like I said I'm thinking out side the box thinking global every black person affects me from Lagos Nigeria to Cleveland Ohio we leave in a global world I mean most of the people that commented on this post ain't south African but you wouldn't know it because some of our issues are the same.
Amelia : I am not following a white God, no offense. Jesus is your image of God, not mine.
Neil : Jesus was black, but the European church chose the image which serves to oppress African peoples.
Amelia : I mean, what other race of people had their spirituality demonized to the point that if you follow your culture, your brethren kill, burn and chop you to pieces for not worshipping the "god image" of the oppressive people??? AND WE NEVER WORSHIPPED ANY "JESUS" UNTIL THE EUROPEAN ADVENT OF HIM! We had our1 God, our deities and our principles... why are we afraid to let go of this fictitious Jesus character? do some research, they name our gods when they speak of the Haitian revolution... they don't begin with the letter "J"
Gift : Fortune favours those who are ready, some of us are never never ready, and never prepared for any thing, just good at complaining and blaming. We have to realize that it's up to us to create opportunities for ourselves and stop moaning about other peoples successes, people have a habit of painting everyone with the same brush and labelling those around-the real enemy is in the mirror and that is the worst enemy because most of us are too afraid to confront ourselves and do a bit of self introspection, it's easy to pretend there is nothing wrong with ourselves and sometimes fun, but deep inside we know that we have ourselves to blame.
Amelia : you folks keep waving your hands, trying to disperse the smoke screen... i am walking around that cloud of confusion and looking at the facts in front of me... get your heads our of the smoke, research relevant things, like how Haiti was able to be free of W/S racism, even for the briefest of periods...
Neil : All religions are either based on or borrow from the principles of religious thought which originated in the great African civilizations. Haiti is an excellent example of what is possible...
Amelia : If I take a small boy from birth, beat him every day for being black and male, persecute those who appear stronger and larger than he for the same, have him watch some being raped/tortured/murdered for the same, always degrade him, calling him names for being a black boy... do you think he grow up to be able to compete efficiently and effectively against other males his age? he want to embrace who he is at his natural core? the root of himself? he consider himself wise and competent? strong and able? tell me that...
Martie Coetser Pozyn: Neil , I agree with you. But fighting those mega rich corporations ..... yes, decrease top salaries and increase low salaries, but not destroying them, for they pay extremely high taxes supposed to be used for education, medical care, etc to the benefit of the entire nation. So fight #2 fraud and misspending of taxes....
Amelia : Haiti wasn't freed via religion, it was freed via spirituality... huge difference. one is person based worship and biased, separatist thinking... the other community based and devoid of persecution
Mpho Makhubedu: Amelia in reality we black have lost the battle. We need to get back to us our gods traditions black is beautiful but 90% of our people are so brain washed don't even see I mean our history is too ridging for some Western Critic to diminish
Gift : Most of us here are goo at typing and expressing ourselves on this social network, some of us never stand up in the crowd and say some of the things we uttering here, are we just passing time or fighting for moral high ground of seconding those who says what looks like the greatest logic, are we repeating what has being said before on the newspaper and on tv or are u saying what u thinking, don't repeating what has being said before by some researchers you never met, say what u know is right,and by the way an opinion is not a fact!!!!!!
Amelia : Why is it that no one wishes to address the content of my posts, refute it at least (non-black). I am active locally, I reach out to youth and adults alike. i have plans in the works as we speak to help the black community... how about you gift? don't point fingers, acknowledge facts and then move towards solutions.. no one has a get outta ownership card in white society unless you refute your privilege at every turn, and none of them do this.
Ruth: Words for thought: “As I walked out the door to the gate that would lead to my freedom, I knew if I didn't leave my bitterness and hatred behind, I’d still be in prison. - Nelson Mandela.”
Amelia : People address emotion charged posts with no fact and ignore the facts. but complain that there is no avenue for change. I read the interactive posts, waited before I responded because i saw it was just a hoe-down with everyone dancing around the base of the issue.
Gift : I work at a community radio station. I've being working there fm since 2011,I am volunteering using my own car and money, secondly I've working at a skills development centre, hosting workshops and helping out on how to reduce teenage pregnancy, substance abuse etc,
Mpho Makhubedu: Amelia white people don't see it that way I guess if they did things would be different Nikohl is Right Whites don't comprehend its up to us to build our selves up from the ground I was as lost and clueless about White supremacy had long straight hair getting arrested till I started reading and joining pro black pages if I can do it given the chance we all can do it...we should first dump this religions
Martie Coetser Pozyn: Amelia, in my humble opinion the wrongdoings of whites on blacks has been acknowledged and is still by all who matters. Racists and ignorant whites not knowing the history of mankind don't matter. They have made up their minds and they don't want to be confused by facts. We cannot allow them to hold us back. Holding grudges, feeding on the horrors of the past, bring nobody nowhere...
Amelia : I am not bitter, nor do I suffer fools lightly. This topic get brushed over by non blacks, they co-sign topics so they feel less guilty for the atrocities they ingly ignore everyday. They say what sounds good in our faces, but wouldn't dare utter the same sentiments in mixed company. If I see someone rob you everyday, Ruth, destroy your family and what they had and kept spreading the terror to your relatives until they are so far removed in relation, you are now unsure of who they are and how they are related, but know they are. And when the thief is no longer around, and you are utterly powerless to get any justice for the crime without my help, I come and tell YOU what happened, but when it comes time to put my words to real use, I act like I have no clue what is being discussed, how would you fell about me?
Martie Coetser Pozyn: Oh, Amelia , sorry I am so slow with replies... struggling with too much pain tonight.... but almost all, if not all, great achievers on this planet had suffered the things you have mentioned in one way ore the other. Google 'great achievers' and read their biographies....
Amelia : I inform the youth in the schools, elementary and up, about the snares of the educational system to railroad them into prison, have my children spread the word to peers and acquaintances. I personally speak to people wherever and whenever possible about what is happening, and the smart way to elicit change without putting the world black population in jeopardy. i use my own items to spread information, utilize my children to spread the words, formulated and soon be implementing a plan to create housing, edibles and the potential for self sufficiency and productivity among the poor. I come onto sights to seek like minded individuals to partner in this, because the more involved, the better chance for change. the poor are at risk, the majority of poor just happen to also be black, but my aim is to help the majority of the poor become productive and valuable, not scapegoats to take the blame. I am not angry, it's just this information is around and about and is just not acknowledged. I would love to have it acknowledged, without back peddling, so we can help those in the greatest need. I understand pain, Martie Coetser Pozyn, lol. it snowed here and i have an injury to my knee which is outrageous right now
Ruth: A fight is to be fought, to eliminate deadly injustices like poverty, torture, rape, war crimes... All those savage acts visible to mankind. Let's be clear as to what causes is for the greater good and stop worrying about lesser important subjects.
Gift : Amelia, just because we both black doesn't mean we have to support the same team, all these backward tendencies of treating other people like thieves, and persecuting grandchildren for their forefather mistakes and wrong doing won't bring us any where closer to the solving if the challenge we facing, and secondly if u are teaching your student how to hate and discriminate other races, I sincerely hope u one day wake up from that horrible dream!
Martie Coetser Pozyn: I think we are all in agreement now. If only we were able to start all over again.... 10000BC.... But let's learn from the past and do everything in our power to change all the wrongs into rights by doing what is right Mpho Makhubedu, I hope with all my heart you get the opportunity to become a highly successful businessman.
Imafighter : Gift quit being a house negro, you are not wanted here
Amelia : those injustices flourished in non African societies until white invaders taught these perversions to them. i do not teach hate, WS/racism isn't even about hate in itself... it's motivated by fear. Only a fool would hate a person driven by fear. But in order to combat fear, you have to teach why it and all of the things done in its name were not correct and then amends need to be made. And Gift , I agree, I am trying to assist all poor, with a mutual understanding and respect for what happened in the past. the only folks capable of giving reparations are the ones in power, not these people on fb... when you have lost family to pain and can still be kind, courteous and compassionate to the perpetrators, then speak to me on how i feel. you have no idea what i teach or represent.
Obiora: @Amelia , I have been following your posts/comments and I believe, you to be a great woman, a true African. You're on point no need refuting what you said for the problem is we black hanging our faith to their so called bible God. We cannot achieve freedom until we reverse our ways another to attain that spiritual level as required by our ancestors.
Imafighter : Gift black people like you are the fucking problem, no different than those Integrationist who sold us out years ago, I despise black people like you! Gift, how the fuck you know what we as people do, think before you speak negro
Gift : No need to curse mpsa kwena, I never said I like u, u just an Emotional spineless fuck that supports racists like Amelia,I don't really care if he is a true African I've know true Africans an she is no where near that group,you fucks hate white people coz and continue to yeah there's bullshit to ur kids I hope u don't wake up tomorrow! It's people like u in the states that make this world a peace of shit selling stupid material to our beautiful African sisters here at home!
Martie Coetser Pozyn: Hate is the reason why the entire world is a battlefield oozing with human blood. What is your ideas? How can S.A. become a successful country to the benefit of all its citizens?
Gift : People with hate stink!!!!!
Amelia : He has no clue, Imafighter , which is why I do not suffer fools. I need our people to be given their proper and just treatment. This is not the time to bend and cow-tow out of fear. I make no threats, I do not believe that at this time violence answer the problem for anyone. That does not stop black African males from killing other Africans because they refuse to worship a white jesus, beating and burning their people for this pale image and what it stands for (slavery, rape, persecution, enslavement, castration, genocide, pedophilic behaviors, to name a few), nor does it stop white men in America from still lynching over 90 black men between 2007 and now. these atrocities are across the board.. now white offices are shattering the faces of white women, taking white women into comas.. the sickness is spreading and becoming dangerous and volatile for all, be sure... but there are over 800,000 black children missing in America alone. my view is different, as is my approach... if i had been able to stay a blind boot-licker, maybe I would feel like he does.
Gift : You mindless cows don't have home here anymore, I teaching our future how to hate-u bustards!
Amelia : Sociologists Noël A. Cazenave and Darlene Alvarez Maddern define racism as “...a highly organized system of 'race'-based group privilege that operates at every level of society and is held together by a sophisticated ideology of color/'race' supremacy. Sellers and Shelton (2003) found that a relationship between racial discrimination and emotional distress was moderated by racial ideology and public regard beliefs. That is, racial centrality appears to promote the degree of discrimination African American young adults perceive whereas racial ideology may buffer the detrimental emotional effects of that discrimination. Racist systems include, but cannot be reduced to, racial bigotry,”.****** I cannot be a racist.
Gift : You Americans are the problem, just coz u black then I have the right to hate and say whatever you feel like saying-calling people motherfuckers and all that?and that makes you saints? Just coz u help children? Just coz ur forefathers were slaves then u are the one I be listened to, U DONT KNOW WHAT PAIN IS!!!!!!!! I am here and I am ready to let u know that u are wrong!
Amelia : I do not hate. I have many white who believe as I do not because I am a bully, but because the facts stand for them self. For one to fight like this against truths, when even the non-blacks are not refuting this information, shows a deficiency in you, not me. I spread truth, which can be uncomfortable, but is necessary for growth and development of a people. Keep your head in the sand, deny what these white people won't even deny, you harm yourself. Society at large is in an uproar because so much history has been suppressed and misconstrued. You would be better off joining the thinking age Gift , so you are not left behind. No one respects a kiss-butt, yes man when they are saying "NO!NO!NO!" stop defending those who are not asking for your defense. Give me one thing I stated that was incorrect or devoid of fact? One misrepresentation of information anywhere... slander... untruth... anywhere in my posts... finger pointing, hate mongering, incensing statements to rile up the masses in a race war???
Gift : No clue? No clue - I worked at a governmental dept. In all different settlement types, I've seen it all, from poor to poorest, from Rich to richest- seen, heard, felt, tasted Pain and u wanna tell me I have no clue?
Amelia : degradation of whites, threats of violence??? falsely placing blame for incidents??? I am also a government employee...
Gift : Keep your opinions to yourself and stop acting like mother Teresa, u know nothing about our struggle in SA. U think uve being everywhere ne?
Amelia : I deal with those who are unable to care for themselves of all races. I have many letters of commendation for my fair and just behavior, following the rules with care and compassion... Not mother Theresa, she was white, I am not. I have been to the US, Canada and Jamaica, no further. But I read, research and use my mind.
Gift : I speak the truth and say for those who cannot say for themselves people enjoy attacking and attacking, what is it with u people?
Amelia : You still have not pointed out where I am incorrect and I am waiting patiently to see the error of my statements, while you get increasingly angry.
Gift : What?you want us to now before u and praise u for attacking others? News flash! Dig a hole and throw yourself in it!!!!!!!!
Amelia : Who did I attack.. and why are you the one who is angry, and I didn't curse at you, or call you a white person, which I too offense to because I love my full blackness and do not wish to be mistaken for anything but black.
Gift : It's not about being incorrect it's about making other people feel bad
Amelia : again, baseless claims from you where I gave fact. You won't get brownie points for being foolish...
Gift : I am not angry I am disappointed!
Amelia : Feelings have no place in adult conversation... children and fools function off of emotions... adults deal with facts and logic
Gift : Foolish, takes 2! U so judgemental and stereotype and hateful!
Amelia : foolish takes the actions of one and the acknowledgement of the act being foolish by the other. both need not participate and saying dig a hole and drop in... a little bit more than disappointment if we are honest with ourselves...
Amelia : what stereotype??? dude?? judge who??? I am so lost... you are in another conversation, i guess...
Gift : Go on, u know exactly what I mean, go hang urself coz u don't belong in the world we trying to build.
Amelia : i asked for 1 example of anything you accused me of doing. and when you could not produce you say i make people feel bad... when did you need to police for these adults who can easily state is there was anything offensive I said. I asked to be shown my error not just by you but by any, and none have said I was wrong nor can anyone provide facts contrary to what I stated. please grow up and handle adult conversations with maturity. and more hatred... wouldn't be surprised what you do to other blacks behind closed doors to prove your solidarity to the oppressive forces... you should move away from the blacks in your area, Uncle Ruckus, I mean Gift... You catch re-vitiligo. You look to bleach your skin, or use effects on your pics to make you appear lighter... love black, stop hating black and then try to handle adult conversations with adults like... well, like an adult.
Gift : This world would be a better place without people like u
Neil : An antagonism to white people per se, consciously or otherwise, is apparent in some of the comments in this thread, including the bizarre notion that skin color influences a person's capacity to be prejudicial and bigoted. American blacks have a unique set of oppressions which are still being fought against. There are still plenty of pig ignorant racist whites to fuel hatred, but Amelia was correct in setting out the sociological structure of societal racism and current white supremacy. We have to be proud of what we've struggled to understand and try to achieve, but humble enough to recognize that we still have a lot to learn from each other. All this talk of house-nigger, uncle ruckus is irrelevant to an African. Our struggles are always unique and dependent on circumstances. Let us be more understanding to each other.
Amelia : eventually I be gone.. So you... we all die... unless there's something wrong with you... lol
Martie Coetser Pozyn: Amelia , your comments were all meaningful. But I agree with Gift - our biggest enemy is our own ego - the protector of our true, vulnerable self, who is but only living in a body with a particular color. We have to keep hate and our primordial urge to take revenge out of our system in order to create a future worthy to live....
Gift : No need to repeat what u saying, I am not retarded like u, under that appearance u are out of control, right now u trying to front and sound matured and grown up,it's only an matter I time before I realize that ur Behaviour is a reflection of the one u really wanna be,I am an excuse for your reaction, you know what u capable of-anyway thanx for the conversation have being an ideal subject I've always wanted to study and look into-hope God blesses all u wish to achieve.
Imafighter : Gift massa loves you boy Lmao
Amelia : again, no hate... took a while before Gift even made me call him Uncle Ruckus...too many people act like things didn't happen, like the plight of the black people are a mystery and nobody has a clue how the cycles began, that is my reason for acknowledgement, not hatred. I speak how i speak around all of my friends of all races, they understand and are spreading the message. We need to unify, we have-nots, because if we do not, we end up soylent green. Imafighter , he doesn't want to fight. He simply needs to understand another point of view. He has a lot of pain inside that he needs to work through.
Imafighter : I see that Amelia he needs people like Dr. Umar Johnson to school him
Neil : How you American blacks love antagonism and hating. Your capacity for jumping to conclusions and prejudging people is so damn white it's scary.
Gift : I have worked through my pains, remember I said I work at a radio station, my work entails provoking and getting people to talk and pouring out their feelings, sorry for causing any trouble, and I am used to being called by names-if there is anyone I insulted know that my intentions where not to make u feel bitter or whichever way you might have felt
Mpho Makhubedu: Man we can't even get along in a fucking thread how the hell we gonna work things out and accumulate Wealth...its a shame really fighting in front of this White people some thing are best kept in the family. So much for open Mindedness
Gift : We not fighting, we letting the heat out
Obiora: Enough of all this please people. War of words cannot lead us any where. We are one in all, with comments and counter comments, what then do we achieve,......Nothing but hatred upon our dear selves. SHALOM
Neil : I understand your energy, commitment and, yes, impatience Amelia. The American struggle has been and is an epic one, with untold suffering. I just think that the situation in many African countries is a tinder box without the buffers we have in the west albeit inadequate to stop our people getting killed daily. But however wise and knowledgeable and 'aware' we are, we might remind ourselves of the value of humility when interacting with different people from different oppressive situations. We do have to unite as 'have-nots' - this is a critical time and Amelia is right about the possible costs of failure on our part.
Gift : Dealing with it on pages won't get us anywhere.... What's wrong with fighting in front of white people? Aren’t they human? if I didn't know I'd say u have some inferior complexities u need to deal with. White people are just PEOPLE. No need to be scared of them,I they judge us them it's what they want to do, it doesn't make us less human-I think the problem is treating white people like they are made of glass, they won't brake
Mpho Makhubedu: Gift lol by saying this you know what I mean do you know me we hang everyday you my business partner would you rather we show other people our indifference of just handle it as family it was nothing to do with White people dilo tse dingwe ke tsa family fela and di sekwa ko familing
Neil : Believe it or not, I learned from the white people in my family that they are as clever and stupid as anyone else. Some can even understand the issues well enough to have something meaningful to say.
Martie Coetser Pozyn: If something can work on paper (on pages) it can work in reality..... unless people don't stick to the original plan on paper.....
Gift : U guys should be comedians. They sweet and very stupid sometimes. We need to act after putting things on paper.
Neil : It's the curse of being human. We do need to become activists if we aren't already. The hour is getting late.
Amelia : taught well... lol.. but seriously... the way he attacked me was vicious, i make statements of observations of his actions, and i am jumping to conclusions. he said i attacked the whites here with no proof, but i jumped to conclusions... i am cracking up so hard my sides hurt... the irony...
Neil : Irony runs in our blood
Amelia : lol... you seem to know how to deal with harsh pains without letting them defeat you. i appreciate that Neil. It's in short supply in our world
Mpho Makhubedu: i would never argue with a fellow black person in front of other Ethnics its like perpetuating the stereotype that black people cant get along Something are best kept in the family regardless.
Amelia : I don't think we had an argument... it felt more like an attempt at scolding someone for telling the truths that we think should stay in the closet to create solidarity, yet, no one can be equal without understanding their past and the past of others. We need to know about each other equally. Our governments and ancestors have stripped that from us, so we cannot ignore what little we do know or pass it off as fictional children's stories. The harsh truth needs acknowledgment even more so than the happy, pleasant truth.
Neil : I had your brave champion more in my sights than you Amelia. You speak passionately of what you live and know. But our experiences in the West don't always transfer neatly to the African situation, although some perspectives do. I always struggle with the dichotomy of US/UK regarding racial integration.
Mpho Makhubedu: Amelia that was an Argument words flying around thank God (I say God because I'm programmed but I believe in nun) its just on facebook lol other wise there would have been fist flying around
Amelia : is an intelligent black man. His way of expression resonates with more individuals than mine seems to.. I respect what he says completely, I appreciate his passion in expressing himself. He shakes folks to there senses... I am more of the nagging, lingering voice of one's conscious.. lol! But he isn't my champion as much as champion of our cause (blacks). He is kinda like our Neuvo Malcolm X... not from me. I was never upset... So for me, not an argument... arguments get me incensed, this did not. He simply couldn't understand how I could say what I was saying and not be angry. I understand
Treasure Coetser: I'm sitting here with my mouth open - shocked to the core at some of these comments - good grief, not every white person was born with a silver spoon in their mouths and yet we are all combed under the same comb 'White Supremacy'??? Utter balderdash!!!! I know this for a fact because most of my childhood was spent in a tent, wondering if I was going to at least get a crust of bread before I fell asleep on a grass mat. Just today I was approached in town to donate money for needy children and while reading the form, the lady assured me that it was for the WHITE needy children. I handed it back to her saying "wrong approach Ma'am, I don't give a toss about colour - so I'm actually sad that so many people who commented here do!!!!!
Amelia : Treasure, I spoke about the past, yes, but after pointing out the elephant in the room, I addressed what the real issue of 2014 is, poor people being persecuted and the need for the poor to unite and become a productive self sufficient group COLLECTIVELY
Mpho Makhubedu: Nail a White Cop killed 3 black guys last year and his still on the job. I lost my car because of Racial profiling and missed my son's birth trust me trust me Amelia's experience transfer neatly with me as a South African maybe that why I relate so much with their struggle..
Imafighter : Treasure Coetser you can sit here and say whatever you want about how poor your were born it still don't mean a GodDamn thing because you are still gonna benefit from "white privilege" why don't you and a black south African go into a field for a job and they hire you quicker than a black person even if the black person has more qualifications than you do so don't sit here with that not every white person is born with a silver spoon Bullshit, because silver spoon or rusty spoon white supremacy fucked this world up and because the surface of your skin tone you still benefit from opportunities based on nothing other than the fact that you are white, so fall back with your comment!
Martie Coetser Pozyn: Okay, let me be honest, I could not help laughing. This was now real-life comedy. Gift lost his temper because rudely offended him - who can blame him.... and then came Amelia, taking the punch that was meant for , and Gift using conclusions he had made to fume his disgust.... lol! Neil managed to restore the order. Being a writer of fiction among others, i could not help but seeing this as part of a comic's plot. Fact is, we are all emotionally involved in the mess we have to sort out to the benefit of our descendants....
Amelia : If more people began to stand up to the system with blacks who have been experiencing for years what is only recently happening to whites on a widespread basis, and create areas where we pool our resources and finances to live in prosperity WITHOUT THE BIAS, RELIGIOUS DISCRIMINATION AND RACIAL TENSION, create alternatives for the persecuted peoples as a whole, then we can truly rage against the machine. But it has to be together, or it not be successful.
Mpho Makhubedu: Neil if everything you know about Africa is from research then let me be one of your sources...being black in South Africa is very similar to black America let me try and take a couple of my friend drive around 9 times out 10 get pulled over by police its just a fact
Imafighter : Martie Coetser Pozyn with all due respect I can care less what you think, you are entitled to your opinion because it means nothing to me, you are a white south African woman and I am a black African American man, we don't come from the same struggle or feel the same experiences of society based on white privilege and white supremacy, you never know what I deal with on a daily basis and I won't know what you experience as a daily basis and this is why black and white people could never unite as ONE because we come from two different worlds with different experiences, its a hard pill to swallow but that's life. I didn't create the world this way, I just happen to live in it!
Neil : All I'm saying is that it's a mistake to assume our perspectives transfer until we have listened, learned and gained a ground level sense of what's happening. There are bound to be similarities, and cops kill people every day and walk in US and UK. I have folk in South Africa and I know it's no cakewalk.
Amelia : , sometimes I lose that perspective point in my speaking, as I temper myself with rex 84. but what you said is true. They see the problem though and as long as they don't turn their backs on us in this fight because they can get a few meager hand ups instead of sticking this out for the long haul, we do fine with this. I just don't now how many have endurance for the long haul. If we deal with and acknowledge facts, I have found that facts transfer over quite lovely. It's when people get emotional that it gets messy and convoluted.
Ruth: AMELIA Amelia is actually derived from two names: "Emilia," a Latin name meaning "rival," and "Amalia," a Germanic name meaning "work" or "labor." Henry Fielding popularized this name with his novel "Amelia" in 1751. More recently, the name took center stage in the "Amelia Bedelia" children's book series.
It was also the name of several British princesses in the 18th century - Princess Amelia Sophia was the daughter of George II, and the youngest of George III's fifteen children was named Amelia.
"Amelia" is also the term for a birth defect in which a child is born without limbs, from the Greek prefix "a-" ("none") and the word "melea" ("limbs").
Amelia Earhart was an aviatrix, she was the first woman to fly solo across the Atlantic Ocean. She later disappeared on an attempt to circumnavigate the globe.
The name is particularly popular in England and Wales, where it was the 10th most popular name in 2007.
Neil : Black and white make a better job of living together in UK, but that's due to complex factors unique to UK demographics, politics and culture. That's not to say it's an ideal, there's plenty of racism, especially at institutional level. But this thread is supposed to be about white supremacy and that is a lesson many people don't want to learn.
Amelia : i fully know he roots of my name, the names of my children and grandchildren.
Mpho Makhubedu: I think its Time people even Conscious people realized Africa is a continent what goes on in Kenya doesn't necessary go on in South Africa. Each country has its own struggle so when you reference Something African please be specific and name a country just like you would do with Europe and other places.
Ruth: Amelia, if that's your real name, please take in consideration our world much more one than you'd like to admit.
Amelia : I love my name, as it suits me as a hard working and driven woman.
Treasure Coetser: Imafighter , I beg to differ!!!!!! My grandson achieved 8 distinctions in Matric and when my daughter (a single mother) applied for a bursary for him to attend University, the fine print read "Preference be given to Blacks, Indians, Colourds, Asians and Chinese" -
Mpho Makhubedu: If anyone had the capacity to comprehend the Black American struggle out side the West its definitely the South African. I can name 10 things that they go through which I relate to perfectly... I have seen black people Work for a company for 30 plus years only to have a 21 year white kid Manage them straight out of high school
Neil : I should damn well hope so Treasure, after the many years of suppressing education opportunities for non-whites. But preference, as direct remedial action aside, I hope your grandson gained that bursary?
Suzette Walker: Whites and blacks come from two different worlds-that is true! Let go of the past and let it be. The past cannot be changed. Now go Forward together and create a diverse but equal present and future. That is all you can control and change. But if you continue to cry about what happened in the past then the present and future not change. Learn from Nelson Mandela. He let go of a past he could not change and went forward and changed his present and his future for the better. That's what all of S.A must do or Mandala has died in vain.
Amelia : why wouldn't that be my name? that's my pic, also, but i am wearing my wig (my hair is natural). if you fully read my posts, I take a lot more into consideration than many. I remember daily that if 2 or more racial outbreaks occur in the USA at one time, they inter all of the blacks and Hispanics in the US by order of the President (if he sees fit, of course) then it happen in Canada, Mexico, Puerto Rico, South America.. then the UK, former Russian states, etc all those interred be disposed of... i don't want that on my shoulders, nor the blood on my hands..
Martie Coetser Pozyn: , you remind me of a white racist.... ignoring them is my way. But while I have the floor, please Google affirmative actions in S.A. and do some more research, then come back and bet on whose going to fill a vacant position in S.A. - white or black... and another thing, we Afrikaans speaking South Africans know what poverty is. We were the victims of British imperialism before we have established apartheid in our stupid efforts to overcome our issues... your behaviour stinks!
Treasure Coetser: Neil Nash, no my grandson did not get the bursary, he's white and I totally disagree with your comment about the suppressed education for non-whites - it's been 20 years and my grandchildren were not even born in the Apartheid era and do not have a racial hair on their heads!!!
Amelia : affirmative action programs have always been set in place to further separate those of lower economic status by further giving each someone to place blame on for their situation, as long as they aren't blaming those in charge.
Imafighter : Martie Coetser Pozyn do I really give a fuck how you view me? Isn't it funny how when black people talk about race issues here goes white folks saying we are racist because we bring up history, FOH with that!
Amelia : Why does everyone want o let go of black past atrocities, but then blacks across the globe must hear of the Jewish genocide and such... this creates pain and resentment in many persons of color, like our blood wasn't as precious, especially when more was spilled... please no more forgive and forget... we need forgive, remember and rebuild.
Ruth : Only quarried your name Amelia as not everyone uses their real one on fb. I'm surprised that a woman of such motivations and mind set has a relatively WHITE name, just saying......
Mpho Makhubedu: My girl friend didn't get that bursary 6 distinctions she is working at pic an pay managed by a 20 year old White kid fresh from high school and your point treasure
Imafighter : Suzette Walker let me ask you a question since you talking all that shit about letting the past be the past. Do you enjoy your white privilege benefits that your ancestors left behind from the enslavement of black people? Isn't if funny how white people wanna distance themselves from the past of slavery, but love reaping the white privilege benefits that was created by their white supremacy ancestors, again your words mean nothing to me.
Amelia : I did not name myself, neither did my grandmother whom I was named after. I am sure her parents, grand parents and great grandparents were not given a naming choice either. If they had, I would probably be M'Bunta or something like that.. lol! Any black parent trying to help their child navigate white America easier named their child a white name.. Steve... Wlliam... Bob... Amelia... when a corporate worker is looking for an employee, they were not likely to hire Keisha, Shashanequa, Bommashalika, etc... it was an attempt at forward propulsion.
Ruth: Ok M'Bunta I shall call you then Amelia lol
Treasure Coetser: My point Mpho is that there should be NO racism and if your girl friend achieved 6 distinctions and is working at P & P managed by a 20 year old white kid fresh from high school, she should seriously look for another job where her academic achievements are recognised.
Amelia : should i feel good, since i got a new, new name from a white person??? It was an attempt at humour, I am sure, but my name is Amelia, the name was given to me by my grandmother and I would appreciate being addressed as such... You assistance is greatly appreciated, as I have not called anyone (other than Gift) anything but their name. And I didn't call him anything until he repeatedly misstated my intentions on this post. I am sure that you know, when blacks were first enslaved, one of the first parts of business was to change their names to more "suitable" names.
Treasure, he said she did NOT get the distinction. But she is black and it still happens more to us than to you. It's just you guys aren't use to it happening and are shocked and outraged. We look at it as part of the system and know that an income is an income at the end of the day.
Mpho Makhubedu: Treasure its White South Africans need to realize that for every White kid that's doesn’t get bursaries or study loans there are 20 black kids... black South African don’t demand Nothing from the Government except Jobs. and service delivery...but its like every time a White person doesn't get what they want the bring that is because I’m White while Chilling at their gated Communities forgetting that we black go through 10 times the struggle,
Amelia : I don't think anyone here really realizes how much choice blacks DON'T have in the current scheme of things... Right now, there are parents who are in court because the "system" feels like the name they gave their child was inappropriate... Blacks cannot name their child Jesus, but Hispanics can... seems trivial, but when one group has to go to court over the name and another doesn't, it creates tension between groups that should be working together. A woman (black) took her child to be circumcised in Tennessee and her child was returned castrated... She has been given no recourse and was told it was an accident... Why should this black mother have to fight with the medical professionals who castrated her son? Especially when he had a fully functioning 5 month old penis when he arrived... yes, he was 5 months old. These are the things that we deal with and are still told to ignore or forget the wrongs done to us.
Neil : is on point, if we forget the past and fail to heed it's lessons, we are condemned to repeat it. And Treasure, as much as I empathise with your grandson, Your comment to Mpho reveals an attitude born of privilege. The social circumstances of an individual may preclude the luxury of rejecting a job due to injustice or inequality. As Amelia said, an income is an income when maybe many people are relying on that wage earner to live.
Amelia : We see on the news black youths being found with their organs missing... a few New Jersey mayors and a group of Jews then soon after get arrested for illegal organ trafficking... but the black parents are told their is not any connection to the two... with over 800,000 black children missing... where were they getting these illegal organs from, if the harvesting was on the up and up, why would it need to be illegal... this is what we blacks must deal with on a regular basis. Over 90 young black men have been hung in the US south since 2007... What we in America are asked to forget is also our present.
Treasure Coetser: Mpho, I don't know if you are aware that the government schools actually have forms for parents to apply for free education for their children, who cannot afford school fees and the schools here in RBay do not turn away any children away. As for the quota you mentioned 'for every White kid that’s doesn't get bursaries or study loans there are 20 black kids. Black South Africans don’t demand Nothing from the Government" this sounds feasible actually, because of the large black families as opposed to the smaller white families. All I'm trying to actually say is, there should be absolutely NO racism in this world..............
Amelia : but to eradicate racism, we have to acknowledge the current system and ALL of its intricacies and details. Many whites still do not understand that no matter how downtrodden they are, there are hundreds of thousands of blacks wishing they were in that white person's situation. Affirmative action in SA was put in place to ensure that the racial tensions, hate and blame game continue. It shifts the dynamics in such a way that is suppose to perpetuate the idea that for all to be treated equal, first they must be treated unequally, which is preposterous. We know the problems with the situation and the governments of the world are not going to alleviate the road blocks to peace and equal treatment. Ignoring what happened to blacks is why affirmative action and the like were accepted. Blacks, as a whole, do not wish for handouts and are more than happy to work for whatever they need. We built nations off of hours of relentless toil, so to be labelled as lazy with such extensive cultural work history is offensive to us. We wish equal fair treatment, equal fair pay, and not to have to worry about if we make it home if we go through the wrong "white" neighborhood, or simply affluent neighborhood, for that matter.
Mpho Makhubedu: Treasure, again what large black families it shows how little you know about us Treasure I'm an only child. My friends have one or two siblings that's just stereotypes Treasure if I may when last have you been to a black Township?. My Mom is 45 years old meaning she is a new Generation of black Mothers who where young during the apartheid days some fighting for liberation the last thing they where thinking about was large families there is no way you can expect a 21 Century South African black woman to have 4 kids in this day and age
Suzette Walker Well, , I am ashamed my country had slavery for as long as it did. I am ashamed my country had segregation for as long as it did. I cannot change that. But I went forward and taught in inner city schools and did what I could to help the poorest of the blacks become educated and get good jobs or go off to college with scholarships. I helped out poor families by buying their children shoes, coats, gloves hats so they would've freeze in the winter. I bought lunches for kids who had no money until their free lunches kicked in. I have done all I could in my present to make this a better and fair world for my students and their families. I taught my black students not to cry about the past but to make the present and future better with hard work and education. What have you done to make this world a better place?
Amelia : Suzette, we still have slavery, its now big business in the US... It's called prison, where a disproportionate amount of those incarcerated for long terms are blacks with low or no real income for non violent offenses... like 2 sisters in the Carolinas serving life in jail for stealing $11, no more, no less... $11=life in prison... if you are black.
Suzette Walker: And, I know I benefited and had advantages because I was white, but I also did what I could to use those advantages to HP those less fortunate than me, we cannot chose the circumstances we are born into but we sure can do something about and with our lives once we become adults.
Amelia : Suzette, you are the first I am personally hearing of that not only verbalize the existence of W/S racism, but have used it to benefit others. That is what we need. See, if you had simply told those children not to focus on the past, work hard for the future with full knowledge that they needed more than words, I would have been upset. But you used your advantages for the disadvantaged and while it may not have evened the playing field, it made the run a little less harrowing. I sincerely applaud you for assisting those children. I hope you also spoke out for them when necessary... even in mixed company.
Treasure Coetser: Mpho, I don't travel much and admit that I have not been to a black township, I do know that black women do not have several children but the men have several wives and thus produce many children and I am NOT alluding to you! How can one man support and educate so many children from so many wives? I'm not knocking anyone's culture here, to each his own, but can only feel for the wives who battle to feed, clothe and educate their children with little or no financial help from the father's.
Mpho Makhubedu: Lol Treasure I don't know any one who has more than one Wife and grand father died at 80 years he had one Wife his friend that hanged with him all had one Wife even Nelson Mandela had one Wife my neighbours all have "proper families" one Mom one dad like I said Treasure the town ship is there go visit in fact you should contact me and let me show around our president with his Many wives is 1 in 100 that's why there is so much ridicule around him even former president Thabo Mbeki has one Wife I mean Treasure other than president Zuma who else do you know with Multiple Wives? Lol! I'll wait. Lol! try and bring a second Wife and see if you survive lol hmmmm I wish
Martie Coetser Pozyn: Amelia , the past was certainly a 'hell' of another world for blacks - while some blacks managed to escape it, some whites have taken their place. I would like to believe that it is no longer about race and colour, but about being privileged.... being in the right place at the right time.... getting raised and educated by the right parents and teachers.... getting born in the right environment.... it is all about Time and Opportunity.... I wish I had the power to change everything for the better...
Ruth : Racism and injustice do still exist. Justice and freedom also now exist. My child announced another child said he "shouldn't sit next to black people" was I supposed to tell her stay away from him? Today they are good friends because all I needed to tell her is don't do what he does or says it's not right. Whatever way racialism appears, whether in our personal lives or further afield, just know that we the rights and freedom to combat it. How we confront life's troubles is what brings about peace or war, love or hate
Treasure Coetser: Mpho, I had a wonderful black lady who looked after my 2 children while I worked and she refused to get married because she did not want to be one of many wives, so my comment was based on what she told me and my next door neighbour (lovely black lady Mavis), divorced her husband when he insisted on taking a second wife and raised her two boys, Hector and Wandele by herself. Fortunately she has an excellent job and both her boys studied hard, in the meantime her ex husband has wife no 4. Good for your wife though and don't wish for wife No 2 LOL
Amelia : they do not need pity.. they made choices as adults to be in their situation. that situation is not the problem... the system of racism in society and these foolish subversive programs are the issue which needs fixing. not those women engaging in polygamy
Martie Coetser Pozyn: Lol @ Mpho .... no woman wants to share a man.... this 'culture' was allowed because there was a shortage of men due to endless wars. But still, there are 7 women for each man.... unfortunately (for men) they can hardly afford one.... unless you are a king or president in Africa? Lol! You wish....
Amelia : not every black is polygamous.. the folks with multiple wives in the US are white... many of them live on compounds are are very poor... but, they persecute blacks and not allow them to live like them, as they claim their right to their religion (mormonism) in its fundamentalist teaching, is not for lowly blacks.. how ironic... no plural marriage for black mormons in America.. lol
Amelia : it's hard to afford life all over the world, unless you are part of the plutonian upper echelon, the 1% rich folks... it's a struggle in the US for anyone not upper class.. middle class and below have it so hard.. Martie Coetser Pozyn are you related to Treasure, by chance?
Suzette Walker: Amelia: I did many times. Many times I accompanied them to the principal's office to help them get fair and equal treatment. I'm not sure how great my principals thought that was! LOL. I realize the profiling and the prison situations that occur in this country and how the court system treats blacks also. I know it is wrong. I simply tried to give back the only way I knew I could and that was through teaching. I tried to make change for the better one student at a time. It is not easy. It is hard work and sometimes I felt I was not making a difference at all. Then, suddenly one of my students who had graduated from college would come back to visit me and I would see their success written all over their smiling faces and then I knew I was doing something right. My own family could never understand my wanting to teach in inner city schools. They thought I was crazy, but it was so rewarding for me. I retired a few years ago and sometimes I still miss it.
Martie Coetser Pozyn: Àmelia, Treasure, or her husband, and I have the same ancestor, dated back to 1700-something.... so we are related, but we have never met. I look forward to meet her...You mean not even black Mormons are allowed polygamy? Now that's discrimination! Injustice doubled....
Amelia : wow... yeah black mormons are not allowed... the irony is hilarious... it's nice that you can know you have a related ancestor... i have no clue who i may or may not be related to via distant ancestry... I bet it's a nice feeling. I, too, hope you meet eventually.
Martie Coetser Pozyn: My late father had done a lot of research and facebook makes it easy for us to connect. But still we don't know anything about our ancestors before 1700 who had lived in Europe - killed during wars between Protestants and Catholics, or during plagues....
Amelia : really... interesting... i logged my ancestry, got as far as 1815.. then it's a dead end... I have African roots and indigenous american roots as well. of course there is a little Dutch, French and English splattered in, care of slavery (the gift that keeps on giving).. lol. i hope that through our meeting, you have a different perspective of the plight of non-white people. or at least a little more clarity about white privilege and how it, like affirmative action programs, have done nothing but foster hatred and division among the poorer classes.
Imafighter : Suzette Walker don't worry about what I'm doing to change the world, I'm not changing my views or opinions and I'm leaving it at that, I stand firm on who I am!
Imafighter : Treasure Coetser you said there should absolutely be no racism in this world, well sorry to say but your ancestors are the reason its here, I didn't create but I gotta face it as a black man everyday because of your ancestors who set up this system!
Mpho Makhubedu Here is a funny thing I also don't know my Ancestors lol talk about the Irony a black Man in Africa who can't trace his ancestors but sadly its Common in South Africa but good thing is thanks to our indigenous Languages we know what tribes we come from even though our languages are mixed with English and Afrikaans. we have languages going extinct and traditions simply because we lost our Ancestry my tribe is near the brink of extinction that even South Africa doesn't recognize the Language anymore only a handful old people speak the language in its Rawest form.
Amelia i wish i knew mine... even if i do a dna search, it would narrow down to tribes.. never one specific one...
Jean : Amelia I've followed this thread and have enjoyed reading the postings; especially yours. You stated your truths with facts which were well laid out. Your composure while dealing with mostly anti-intellectual responses are commendable. Sometimes when facts are put out there people sometimes react with anger, hostility and name calling. Kudos
Amelia : This was one of the nicest comments ever stated about me. Thanks so much, Jean Morris.
Martie Coetser Pozyn I'm saying goodnight to you all for now. 2:35am down here. Thanks for an interesting conversation. Oh, Amelia , I am so well-aware of the plight of non-whites since the beginning of times. I am a keen amateur historian.... I hope to learn more from you. Mpho Makhubedu and I have opened a group for this kind of discussions, but for many unfortunate reasons too many blacks are not ing to discuss their issues with whites, and vice versa. But I am going to add you to the group, or maybe Mpho has already added you. Your input from time to time mean a lot. See you there... and on our pages as well.
Neil : It has been a privilege to witness and be able to participate in this discussion Mpho, thank you for the tag. It is the best use of Facebook to host such important debates. Thank you and everyone on here. It's getting late in the UK! Thank you again
Malusi : It is very difficult for us blacks to be able to trace our own ancestry. This was made possible by Christian missionaries who convinced us that following our own traditions was heathenish and pagan. The psychological abolition of African rites of passage has actually killed our tradition and resulted in the birth of "educated" Africans, who bear foreign names and despise their fellow brothers. These are the people who collaborated with the imperialists and yet to this day they continue to do the same. How can an ordinary South African be able to trace his/her ancestry whereas the history of South Africans began only in 1652, as is the rest of African continent whose history is generally written by non-Africans. Insane isn't it. Therefore it is not surprising to see Mandela's movie being written and produced by non-Africans. Even if a Black man had an ambition of writing and filming the man's life, he wouldn't be given access to the right information. Why? Because the colonial master has had enough time to deal with the Blackman's mind to such an extend that he now views his brother as an enemy and the white man as a god. I've been turned down by so many black publishers, not for lack of talent but for being "too politically provocative". And i believe no white publisher ever allow to publish my work. This is cultural violence at its best.
Martie Coetser Pozyn: Malusi, nowadays writers publish their own work, either in blogs on the Internet, or electronic books (kindle @ Amazon.com) and even hard copies, appointing their own editors (for proof reading) and if they struggle with publishing in Amazon, they can pick and choose publishers as they please. Go for it! The world is in dire need of fiction as well as non-fiction about Africa written by Africans. You are welcome to inbox me if you need any tips.
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